GROSS: It was humiliating for them, if that. And it took me a while - and again, I think this was being a woman - to recognize what they were saying to me when they would tell me how - you know, about times they had cried or times they almost cried - like, how big that was for them and how hard that was for them.
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And a lot of guys would say to me that they had learned how to build a wall inside them to block off any feelings except maybe happiness and anger.Īnd they would talk about training themselves not to feel or training themselves not to cry. And they would talk a lot particularly about that piece of suppressing feelings.
And it was still all about stoicism, sexual conquest, dominance, aggression or this weird combination now of being both aggressive and chill, athleticism, wealth. And when we would do that, it was like they were channeling 1955. But I would ask them all the time to just give me a kind of lightning round of the ideal guy. I mean, with boys, on one hand, they saw girls as equals and deserving of their place on the playing field and in class and in leadership. I want you to explain the difference that you found between girls and boys in trying to escape from the constraints of gender roles and gender preconceptions. But for boys, the traditional concept of manhood still holds sway. GROSS: So, you know, you write that feminism has given girls an escape from the constraints of conventional femininity. So when they had the chance, when somebody really gave it to them and wasn't going to be judgmental about what they had to say, they went for it. And I think the reason was that we just don't give boys permission or space to discuss their interior lives and talk about what's going on with them. They talked a lot about what boys don't usually talk about - feelings. And while I thought it would be maybe awkward or that they wouldn't want to talk to a woman, that proved not to be true at all. And maybe the biggest surprise for me in doing the whole project was how eager they were to talk. You know, they don't - teenage boys don't exactly have a reputation for chattiness.
PEGGY ORENSTEIN: Well, my biggest fear with boys actually was that they wouldn't talk at all. Was it harder for you to talk about sex with boys than it was to talk about sex with girls? Peggy Orenstein, welcome back to FRESH AIR. Like the book title says, we're going to be talking about teenagers and sex. Her book "Boys & Sex" is based on extensive interviews with over 100 college and college-bound aged 16 to 22. But after the #MeToo movement and revelations of widespread sexual misconduct, including the now-infamous list of famous men, she thought it was time to engage young men in conversations about gender and intimacy. My guest, Peggy Orenstein, is the author of the new book "Boys & Sex: Young Men On Hookups, Love, Porn, Consent, And Navigating The New Masculinity." It's a follow-up to her book "Girls & Sex." She's been chronicling girls' lives for about 25 years, including in her earlier books "Schoolgirls," "Don't Call Me Princess" and "Cinderella Ate My Daughter." She never expected to be writing about boys.